snr

snr? - RightMark ForumsProfile · Register · Preferences · FAQ · Search · Favorites · Last active topicsRightMark Forums » RightMark Audio Analyzer » snr? Search · New topic · Post Replyclose · move · delete · mergeto favorites · print · search · emailNed Pat: snr? Ned PatJunior MemberPosts: 1Registration: Jul 2004 posted July 19, 2004 11:06 AMprofile • edit • reply w/quote • IPHi,How can I measure SNR without external pro analysers? Is available any software for this parameter?Please help me! Maxim LiadovCoordinatorPosts: 164From: Moscow, RussiaRegistration: Oct 2001Web-page posted July 19, 2004 04:25 PMprofile • edit • reply w/quote • IPTo measure SNR of ...? ned patunregistered posted August 17, 2004 02:26 PMedit • reply w/quote • IP[b]Maxim Liadov[/b]Sorry I have been on holidays...I want to measure SNR of my soundcards (terratec 88mt, emu 1820m and lynx )which are installed in my computers.Is this possible with software or I can just to look at peak meter on Wavelab?Do you have a solution?Ned Pat Maxim LiadovCoordinatorPosts: 182From: Moscow, RussiaRegistration: Oct 2001Web-page posted August 18, 2004 12:09 AMprofile • edit • reply w/quote • IPned patFighting the measurement illiteracyRecently still more audio device manufacturers have been manipulating quality specs for marketing purposes. On the other hand, it's not that bad, as IT mass media alongside common users improve their knowledge and test sound parameters more often to check if they are as claimed. At the same time there's a large gap between marketing brochures and technical documents. Unfortunately for resourceful advertisers, for some reason in Russia there are evil and morose engineers instead of happy journalists. They make "malicious" measuring tests and stir up troubles by digging deep into products in general. So there's no reason to relax and sell another "long-anticipated audio revolution". SNR: there's noise, but no signalFor example, let's take Creative's favourite marketing parameter (that pesters me already) - SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio). With the help of abstract logic and without any electronics knowledge you might suppose it would be the difference between signal and signal noise. The higher is SNR, the higher should be sound clarity and lower should be noise. So the new 24-bit formats alongside DVD-Audio are just bound to feature higher SNR. This consumer opinion provides foundation for the entire ideology of making this parameter a motto. At soundblaster.com you can read: "Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS delivers 24-bit ADVANCED HD audio quality playback with incredible 108dB SNR." On the back of Audigy2 ZS box you can see: "Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS series is the only available PC platform to deliver Advanced Resolution playback at 24-bit/192 kHz in stereo or 24-bit/96kHz in 5.1 surround at 108dB SNR". Now let's turn to the well-known technical brief "Personal Computer Audio Quality Measurements" By Dr. Steven Harris & Clif Sanchez Cirrus Logic, Crystal Audio Division (458Kb) written by the Audigy2/Audigy2 ZS DAC maker: The label SNR should not be used due to industry confusion over the exact definition.As you can see, SNR is not recommended for use at all as confusing! In case of Creative, SNR stands for noise when there's no signal. But this can't improve playback anyhow! Considering that CS4382 features auto-mute that completely disables DAC output after 8192 zero samples are received (about 0.2s in the 44100Hz mode). Therefore the DR (Dynamic Range) is developed and used instead of the SNR: "Dynamic Range is the ratio of the full scale signal level to the RMS noise floor, in the presence of signal, expressed in dB FS. This specification is given as an absolute number and is sometimes referred to as Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) in the presence of a signal. <...> DR can be measured using the THD+N measurement with a -60 dB FS signal. This low amplitude is small enough to minimize any large signal non-linearity, but large enough to ensure that the system under test is being exercised." In our RMAA test we don't use SNR as well, following the recommendation above. However except for DR we also measure the Noise level by inputting minimal possible noise to the DAC that corresponds to the theoretically possible quantization noise at the given bit depth within the measured frequency range. Besides, it's often enough to disable auto-mute.SpectraLABbersSome sparse periodicals ignore RMAA for their love to everything alternative. They use pirate versions of SpectraLAB, in which SNR means THD+N expressed in dB instead of %. These enthusiasts measure SNR on a 1kHz sinusoid curve thus doing the double measurement work - harmonic distortions (hardly related to noise level (given they know meaning of those "wise terms")). And the A-weighing is naturally disabled. You can have some fun by emailing them this formula "their SNR" = 20 log ("their THD+N" / 100) - a universal conversion from % to dB.From my article Creative Audigy2 ZS review ned patunregistered posted August 18, 2004 02:47 PMedit • reply w/quote • IPThank you Mr. Liadov!I have read all this articles, beacuse I have search all articles on this forum and I found similar answers.I understead "almost" all, but I thinking about SNR only "theoretical". I have a broadcast studio and occasionally writing the souncard tests in Slovenian PC magazines.So, if jou can me to explain more about (only)SNR or just post me a links, I will be very grateful!Maybe some formulas for calculation or something similar, that I can written (and express in practical numbers) in articles....(request from editors)Thank you in advance!!!Sorry about my bad english! Maxim LiadovCoordinatorPosts: 183From: Moscow, RussiaRegistration: Oct 2001Web-page posted August 20, 2004 03:27 PMprofile • edit • reply w/quote • IPPlease, read my answer more deeply. I think I answered you completely. Ned PatJunior MemberPosts: 2Registration: Jul 2004 posted August 22, 2004 12:23 AMprofile • edit • reply w/quote • IPSorry, I understand.Thank you again!!! 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